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 Les Adieux

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regmelocco



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1PostSubject: Les Adieux   Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:12 am

We woke up to a different reality Friday morning - Thursday evening it seemed sure that the Brits would not vote to leave the EU...
However, a few percents were chalked up last minute and the countryside won over the urban areas, the pensioners won over the young people, the color-friendly people lost to the all-whiters and geerally the uneducated won over the educated ones (look at the stats...)
Now Germany says you guys should eat what you cooked and soon...

Vladimir smirks but says all the correct things - naturally, after victory he does not need more rhetoric, lest more people would see his true interests. Trump congratulates the British people. (He almost said correct things lately due to the horrible Florida massacre - this time his very wording shows his true colors: he is with what the contheo folks used to call Dragon People...)

The funny thing to me is how on earth this dangerous play could be allowed.

1. If Britain is a democracy, obviously such a momentuous decision could not be left to a simple majority (52% won and about 60% or so of the citizens attended). There are techniques to screen out a narrow majority pushing down inedible offal into the throats of the rest of the citizenry - stipulating 60%, or better, two thirds, or marking out a certain rate of participation compared to the registered number of citizens etc.
2. If the Brits are ready to pay into the funds of the EU as Norway and Switzerland do, plus continue to let in foreign workers from EU states, the referendum was a joke. However, it looks like it was not, or else the Prime Minister would not have resigned. He could have come out hours later that yes, Britain would pull out since that is what the voters wanted, yet he suggests to do the main things which the EU was about.
3. Whch leads me to the conclusion that Cameron looked like he was pro-EU but in fact he was not really - and citing the bitter remarks of Juncker, actually when someone thrashes the EU six days a week, it will not do to try a Sunday school job.

Every single statistic that comes out shows that the leave campaign was founded upon lies and racism - no, the immigrants do not take away more than they pay in taxes, no, Britain did not pay more than it received (it was treated royally as far as individual countries are concerned, far above its needs). Moreover, a great number of people who voted leave now are googling the very reasons why they did it - and it turns out they are seriously misinformed.

If politicians attempt any compromise they will be looked upon as soft.

Trump congratulated them...
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2PostSubject: Re: Les Adieux   Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:41 pm

Reg, the OP, re: "We woke up to a different reality Friday morning - Thursday evening it seemed sure that the Brits would not vote to leave the EU... However, a few percents were chalked up last minute and the countryside won over the urban areas, the pensioners won over the young people, the color-friendly people lost to the all-whiters and generally the uneducated won over the educated ones (look at the stats...) Now Germany says you guys should eat what you cooked and soon..."

I didn't expect Brexit to pass, because it's not in the best interests of ANYONE in the UK, regardless of their social, political, or economic status. And I hadn't asked my Guides about it, because I didn't consider it very important. However, when I asked after the fact, the answer I got was, "Remember when we inspired Bob Dylan to sing, 'There's something going on here, but you don't know what it is, do you, Mister Jones'? And you know that the [Stargate technology] is working at full capacity, but you've never seen a list of the projects it's working on. The Donald Trump phenomenon is one of them and the Brexit phenomenon is another. And a few more are going make the headlines between now and the November election in the USA." So I'm taking their unstated advice and just waiting to see what will happen next.

re: "Vladimir smirks but says all the correct things - naturally, after victory he does not need more rhetoric, lest more people would see his true interests. Trump congratulates the British people. (He almost said correct things lately due to the horrible Florida massacre - this time his very wording shows his true colors: he is with what the contheo folks used to call Dragon People...)"

My Guides are now telling me that both Putin and Trump believe they are successfully conning other people into serving their interests, but both of them are being used by the IC to create distractions from the political-military stalemate in the immediate Palestinian area that could cause a major nuclear war at almost any moment.

re: "The funny thing to me is how on earth this dangerous play could be allowed. 1. If Britain is a democracy, obviously such a momentuous decision could not be left to a simple majority (52% won and about 60% or so of the citizens attended). There are techniques to screen out a narrow majority pushing down inedible offal into the throats of the rest of the citizenry - stipulating 60%, or better, two thirds, or marking out a certain rate of participation compared to the registered number of citizens etc."

The people who wrote the US Constitution and Bill of Rights were already aware of a lot of the flaws in the unwritten British constitution so they included safeguards against this sort of things. Passages allowing referenda like "Brexit" were already written into the constitutions of the colonies that eventually became states, but aren't mentioned in the Federal constitution ... for just this reason.

re: "2. If the Brits are ready to pay into the funds of the EU as Norway and Switzerland do, plus continue to let in foreign workers from EU states, the referendum was a joke. However, it looks like it was not, or else the Prime Minister would not have resigned. He could have come out hours later that yes, Britain would pull out since that is what the voters wanted, yet he suggests to do the main things which the EU was about."

I assume that the refusal of the UK to adopt the Euro and do other things that "good" EU nations take for granted has made it unlikely that a "soft exit" could be negotiated, and Cameron knows it, so he's bailing out. And IMO, the fact that the EU leadership wants the exit to take place very soon is evidence to support this idea.

re: "3. Whch leads me to the conclusion that Cameron looked like he was pro-EU but in fact he was not really - and citing the bitter remarks of Juncker, actually when someone thrashes the EU six days a week, it will not do to try a Sunday school job."

My guess is that Cameron is a true conservative who wanted to maintain the status quo, but is actually anti-EU for reasons the Brexit movement hasn't even mentioned.

re: "Every single statistic that comes out shows that the leave campaign was founded upon lies and racism - no, the immigrants do not take away more than they pay in taxes, no, Britain did not pay more than it received (it was treated royally as far as individual countries are concerned, far above its needs). Moreover, a great number of people who voted leave now are googling the very reasons why they did it - and it turns out they are seriously misinformed. If politicians attempt any compromise they will be looked upon as soft. Trump congratulated them..."

I completely agree and I've heard that enough British subjects are having second thoughts about this that there's even talk circulating about having another vote before implementing the withdrawal.
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3PostSubject: Re: Les Adieux   Sun Jun 26, 2016 2:49 pm

Yesterday zhe news was a surprise for me i ekpeked UK 2 voke "no"

zhack was a sligh "yesz" and I read zhe Brexit wiki 2 underskand zheir
choice according 2 many national, honkinenkal & international declarashohmsz

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_European_Union_membership_referendum,_2016


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4PostSubject: Re: Les Adieux   Tue Jun 28, 2016 5:21 pm

Someone I regularly correspond with wrote to me that the vote was primarily a strong stance of the EU taken against Muslims. Let's not debate who "Muslims" are for the UK has taken its share from the dissidents in Pakistan who do not approve of the massively undemocratic Pakistani system and using the ex-colonial status, starting a new ife in the UK - which they can from now on, unhindered by the mostly white, Christian or Jewish workers from Eastern Europe. The campaign was massively nationalistic, hinging upon the country vote of mostly misinformed voters. The question remains how did Cameron allow a vote with simple majority. Reading the comments in some British periodicals and dailies, one has the impression that the whole thing is based upon racism, with the Poles and Hungarians taking the role of Italians and Irish earlier in America, while most commenters were outraged against Muslim immigration. It is an odd case of false consciousness, because there is no known terrorist attack coming from Eastern European immigrants.
Paradoxically it could help in tying the EU into a closer cohesion - but my first association was when reading the morning news on Friday was WAR. War with Putin, War with Islam.
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5PostSubject: Re: Les Adieux   Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:40 pm

reg, #4, re: "Someone I regularly correspond with wrote to me that the vote was primarily a strong stance of the EU taken against Muslims. Let's not debate who 'Muslims' are for the UK has taken its share from the dissidents in Pakistan who do not approve of the massively undemocratic Pakistani system and using the ex-colonial status, starting a new life in the UK - which they can from now on, unhindered by the mostly white, Christian or Jewish workers from Eastern Europe."

This is an aspect of the Brexit aftermath that I hadn't considered, and IMO, it introduces introduces complications into the mix. The most obvious is that the Pakistani government harbored Osama bin Laden for years and is currently doing the same for other hard-core Islamic terrorists, some of whom might eventually sneak into the UK. And the "silent majority" of Pakistani Muslims who successfully adjust to life in Britain are still likely to remain part of an organized minority group for many generations. Their descendants will tend to marry other Muslims rather than assimilating the way "white, Christian or Jewish workers from Eastern Europe" have been doing for centuries.

re: "The campaign was massively nationalistic, hinging upon the country vote of mostly misinformed voters. The question remains how did Cameron allow a vote with simple majority. Reading the comments in some British periodicals and dailies, one has the impression that the whole thing is based upon racism, with the Poles and Hungarians taking the role of Italians and Irish earlier in America, while most commenters were outraged against Muslim immigration. It is an odd case of false consciousness, because there is no known terrorist attack coming from Eastern European immigrants."

Since Britain doesn't have a written Constitution, there isn't much Parliament can do to prevent a referendum like the Brexit one from being written up to pass with a simple majority of those voting. There's precedent for allowing such referenda - the one back in 2014 that would have made Scotland independent is an example - and they traditionally originate outside of the mainstream ... and are usually designed to appeal to "false consciousness" on one level or another.

re: "Paradoxically it could help in tying the EU into a closer cohesion - but my first association was when reading the morning news on Friday was WAR. War with Putin, War with Islam."

My guess at this point is that economic factors no one can predict in advance will trump both political and social factors. It looks to me like the EU as a whole will come out of this mess maintaining a higher degree of financial stability than either the UK or Russia, and that the current massive influx of Muslim refugees into Europe is going to end up being self-limiting, simply because it will cost too much to allow too many of them in.

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