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 Demonic - MC brand?

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regmelocco



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1PostSubject: Demonic - MC brand?   Sun Aug 07, 2016 12:03 pm

One book I am screening through is Ann Coulter's title "Demonic," very aptly titled though not the way she intended it. Another one I leafed through recently was "Godless..."

Now I had to face the demonic forces I see in those books directly. Though Coulter makes a few good points which I have to grant her - like her study of the problematic reappraisal of the French Revolution itself -, what she uses these elaborate arguments for is not nice: a very dogmatic, repetitive hatred of "liberals" and "Democrats" in general. Nor do I believe that she produced the research for these books independently - it would have taken her decades instead of a few months. Probably a bunch of think tank-like people were digging up facts, quotes and even working out arguments for her.

She writes well, and questions many deep-set beliefs of the modern world but what she uses all these arguments for is no less than demonic. I got the volumes from my mother-in-law and for years I was not able to read into them because every time I opened a page I was stricken with revulsion. This public personality was built up much later than my life in the US so I was not familiar with her but I could see the gloves being thrown at common human decebcy under the guise of examining the prejudices...

Now I got through this instinctive revulsion, I manage to identify various elements in her communication and I think now it is practical for me to learn about some of these arguments so they would not take me so much by surprise...
Like the one did last year, when I was surprised at a peaceful Sabbath invitation. The husband of the said mother-in-law (both of them, I must add again, have their impeccable merits, but there is a curious political blindness about them which I just try to handle somehow). Getting into a bottle of spirits, he voiced the opinion that all revolutions were bad and horrible in every case, then asked the rhetorical question if there had ever been any revolutions whatsoever in history that produced any good.

I tentatively asked the company "...perhaps the American Revolution?" and while some of their friends were nodding, in his case I met with silence. The funny thing was that he did not pursue the argument...

Obviously my hosts were conservatives and I tried not to alienate them on purpose, but this then sounded a bit extreme to them too...

So he could not answer that argument as cleverly as Ann Coulter did - she expounds in her book detail by detail how the AR could still pass the muster of educated conservatives and religious people, and she does strike a chord with me when she writes about the horrors of mob rule and violent irrationalism. (Oddly enough, the same arguments could be now used against the rampant emotionalism of Mr. Trump... if we fight fire with fire.) So anyway, I was surprised last year by the extremeness of this argument and I want to be surprised less and less though much of this is nonsense to mee.

I was on the verge to ask him whether he preferred to pay taxes to King George - which would have been against a well-set American taboo, accepted left and right...

Now one of these days I had to face the recent wife of my father (who is known for his moderate but determined stance siding with
the present ultra-rightists in Hungary). While my daughter who goes to school in the US is generally successful with her grandparents there to avoid daily political topics, over here she merely asked a question there about the resistance against the oldest trees of the city being ready to be cut down by government planners in the only significant green area of downtown Pest (there has been a mass protest for months, some people camping out, and some milder acts of police or corporate violence).
My father to my surprise advanced a moderate and calm, pro-tree argument, while his wife went on to a positively screaming, hysterical attack spouting "stuff." The same demonic energy I feel from the Coulter books (with far less of arguments and culture).

Then of course we got to the subject of "migrants" and their anti-Arab racism and I did not want to contradict either of them after all this for preveting further "loss of face", I merely tried to preserve a calm and discursive tone...

But I had to face the fact that not only are these forces demonic and extreme, they simply disallow any questions, any dialogue, and the only thing they now allow would be a loud and disruptive choir of hatred shaking with rage. And I went so far as to state calmly - in relation to the protest against the anti-tree project - that anyone who ran into others without any rational arguments and could not hold a rational discourse involving listening to the other parties and their arguments was not making sense whethzer government or not so if that problem of communication was not solved I was not going to be convinced that anything had to be done with the trees or the park.

(The background of this project is like an urban chess game - our Prime Minister has been wanting to move into the Royal Palace Hill for years instead of working at the Houses of Parliament - and he would throw out all the museums and even a Catholic monastery, for which he needs space in a similarly historical quarter - so he decided to centrally order the reconstruction of all the greenery in the said grove.)

Then my father's wife came out against Merkel as if she were the Devil himself and even mentioning Clinton... I could hardly believe my ears.

We drove home actually thinking that it was useful to have had this debate. Hopefully my daughter could gain more insight upon how to skirt around these subjects while holding her own opinion in secret... She actively dislikes Mr. Trump but knows better than to say anything in the form of a simplest allusion...

I had the chance to observe a few more attributes of these demonic voices seizing some of these people and the lines are drawn clearer and clearer every day...

One attribute of course is paranoid ideation, another is the mere loudness and the disruptive conversational gestures - the equivalent of cutting in front of a car then jamming your brakes.

A third one linguists studied at lenth is "buzzwords" - enthusiastic haters will simply jump on simple buzzwords like "migrants," "liberals" - now all NGO's are acquiring a negative sound for the ever radicalizing Hungarian right, it appears.

I could observe a few more people recently who are biased towards the right, I could witness them getting more and more extreme and they seem to share some of the same conversational style... e.g. they keep on finishing your sentences.

So far I tried to tell moderate rightists here that I got along with left and right well, as neither of my professions (NLP therapy, language and astrology) allowed for discrimination (though I always stood up against extremes like simple racism).

But I find it more and more difficult to simply hold a conversation with rightists these days, as they seem to be getting more and more extreme and driven...
Now I felt the same energy from this lady as when I looked the energy behind the Ann Coulter books. (If I ever thought Rush Limbaugh was like a man from the Moon in 1990...)

Now a third case: one of my former astrology disciples who I had regarded as a bit unbalanced but very intelligent came to take a class - and after some study materials we said a few words about world changes. There it was, she came out with the same hysteria about how bad all Muslims were and how Europe was disintegrating and how Clinton was like a horrible thing to happen to the world. At that point I started to say to myself - wait a minute. This is starting to sound the same as the other two, except a bit milder... Isn't she just displaying some of the same symptoms? Isn't this a bit like the mind control stuff Realitybuilder writes about?

BTW she is a teacher of English, practicing with individual clients and she regularly watches TV channels like CNN...
The whole thing sounded to me like a bit of right wing propaganda and that someone was cooking up these arguments and lately they stopped caring in case critical people actually compared narratives.

As I pointed out in another thread a few days ago, our PM Orbán was making headlines being the first leader around the world who openly and publicly came out in favor of Trump, saying that Clinton would be a disaster for Hungary and the EU. (And today Erdogan was saying some stuff about how great the cooperation with Russia is - having visited the President himself after the suppressed coup...)

Now even if I imagine myself taking a conservative side in some issues, I would think taking that position would be really extreme...
I could go as far as to say that my preference was this or that, but saying that Clinton is a "horrible disaster" is such an obvious exaggeration looked at from here that I could advance no sane arguments for it. No doubt Orban's counselor Arthur Finkelstein could get away with it though, forcing his Eastern European protegé to play a double-or-nothing game...
Even Connie Mack, hired for millions to whitewash the image of the present government made very critical remarks (I guess he is shrewd enough to see that Trump stands a good chance of losing.)

Now this returning disciple of mine is not particularly well-educated in history and politics and she is (or rather she was) generally a tolerant person, a little bit dogmatic about religion (a certain brand of Buddhism in this case).

Many times I observed that her ways of communication made me nervous - despite her profession. Now I suddenly recalled that years ago - during the previous elections - she was already commenting upon the situation saying that some people were whispering that Donald Trump, the real estate mogul could be a good leader of the US.
As I had known him from articles in the early nineties about his many scandals, I could not take it seriously at the time.

I was asking the question to myself: back then, Trump was not even a remote player - could these people know something I didn't? How could they know back in 2012 that it would be Trump who would try to hijack one of the most powerful and in certain regards the most advanced societies of the world? Though my disciple is not well informed on political theory and history, the person who initially financed her classes was a well-earning and obviously well-connected German linguist... Eva and I rarely talked about politics, since it was mostly about astrology, spiritual subjects and Eastern religions that came up and she always served me nice tea and refreshments...

Despite their demonization of Muslims in general, somehow all these energies are similar to the conversational equivalent of a jihad...


Last edited by regmelocco on Sun Aug 07, 2016 12:08 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : minor spelling stuff)
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2PostSubject: Re: Demonic - MC brand?   Sun Aug 07, 2016 1:31 pm

reg, #1:

It's funny to have to admit this, but I actually know very little about right-wing ideology or the people who produce it. I've never read anything by either Ayn Rand or Ann Coulter, for example. This is because I've lived in the hard core of the occult and counterculture communities all my life, and started writing about subjects that fit in there at an early age. So I'll comment on some of the points you raised in your OP, but there's no way I can actually do justice to your long and carefully researched message.

re: "Nor do I believe that she produced the research for these books independently - it would have taken her decades instead of a few months. Probably a bunch of think tank-like people were digging up facts, quotes and even working out arguments for her."
RR's reply: I'm sure this is true, but of course the same can be, and is, said of most liberal and socialist writings.

re: "Getting into a bottle of spirits, he voiced the opinion that all revolutions were bad and horrible in every case, then asked the rhetorical question if there had ever been any revolutions whatsoever in history that produced any good. I tentatively asked the company '...perhaps the American Revolution?' and while some of their friends were nodding, in his case I met with silence. The funny thing was that he did not pursue the argument..."
RR's reply: I've been in similar situations many the times over the course of a long life, but my great uncle taught me the proper response when I was in grade school: "War is what happens when disputes between nations can't be settled by peaceful means. Revolution is what happens when the same can be said of disputes between factions within a nation." He told me this was undoubtedly a quotation, but he'd never been able to identify the source.

re: "But I find it more and more difficult to simply hold a conversation with rightists these days, as they seem to be getting more and more extreme and driven... Now I felt the same energy from this lady as when I looked the energy behind the Ann Coulter books. (If I ever thought Rush Limbaugh was like a man from the Moon in 1990...)"
RR's reply: I never had many conversations with rightists until I went on line in the primitive Internet in 1990, and ironically enough, the first group I crossed virtual swords with was Rush Limbaugh followers who called themselves "ditto heads".

re: "At that point I started to say to myself - wait a minute. This is starting to sound the same as the other two, except a bit milder... Isn't she just displaying some of the same symptoms? Isn't this a bit like the mind control stuff Realitybuilder writes about?"
RR's reply: Yes it is, and also the theocratic mind control that's a major theme in the WiH book.

re: "Now I suddenly recalled that years ago - during the previous elections - she was already commenting upon the situation saying that some people were whispering that Donald Trump, the real estate mogul could be a good leader of the US. As I had known him from articles in the early nineties about his many scandals, I could not take it seriously at the time. I was asking the question to myself: back then, Trump was not even a remote player - could these people know something I didn't? How could they know back in 2012 that it would be Trump who would try to hijack one of the most powerful and in certain regards the most advanced societies of the world?"
RR's reply: I assume that the TV reality shows Trump starred in for many years aren't aired in Hungary so you aren't familiar with them. I'm not either, because I've never watched any of them. However, when Trump first started speculating about running for President in 2012, he'd already been expressing his political opinions on shows like "The Apprentice" for years and getting public feed-back on them.
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