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 Gandharis's curse on Krishna

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rcscwc

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1PostSubject: Gandharis's curse on Krishna   Mon Nov 09, 2015 5:32 am

Five Pandava brothers and 100 Kaurava brothers fought and pitched, bloody war. They were cousins of Kuru clan. They large armies under their commands. The war lasted for 18 days, with huge and grievously shattering losses to both the antagonists. All the Kaurava brothers with their sons and g'sons were killed. Though Pandavas did survive but they too had such losses. Out of the terrible battle only five Pandava brothers, Lord Krishna, who acted as Arjuna's chaioteer and formidable Satyaki survived. On Kaurava side only three warriors survived.

After this "victory" Pandavas, led by Krishna, entered the capital and first paid respects to King Dhritrashtra, who abdicated. Then they went to Queen Gandhari, mother of Kauravas to pay respects and seek her pardon.Krishna of course did the same. Gandhari was naturally grief stricken at the death of her her descendants. She pardoned the five brothers, but not Krishna. On Him she pronounced he curse : O Krishna, O lord of the universe, you and only you could have averted the battll.. Yo could imposed your will. But O Krishna, you chose not do it. Like my clan has perished while live, so will your clan perish while you are in this world. You too will suffer like I do.

With a smile Krishna replied: O mother, your curse shall come happen. Only After suffering will I go back to my world.

The Curse did come true.

Note: it was an intra clan strife. Great sage Vyasa has chronicled it with events leading to it, and after that. The King and Queen lived many years in their palace, with full honors and respect. It s great and big Epic, more than seven times larger than all the Greek epics.

Peace be on you and your environment.
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2PostSubject: Re: Gandharis's curse on Krishna   Mon Nov 09, 2015 6:08 am

Sounds very similar to the Gaia stories. The story mentions about him going back to his world. That is interesting as we, in this age, are finding other worlds and protals and such.
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3PostSubject: Re: Gandharis's curse on Krishna   Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:49 am

I've always wondered if the writing of the Mahabharata that has come down to us was influenced by the Greek epics attributed to Homer, which were probably composed between 1500 and 1000 BCE.

"Traditionally, the authorship of the Mahabharata is attributed to Vyasa. There have been many attempts to unravel its historical growth and compositional layers. The oldest preserved parts of the text are thought to be not much older than around 400 BCE, though the origins of the epic probably fall between the 8th and 9th centuries BCE. The text probably reached its final form by the early Gupta period (c. 4th century CE).[5] The title may be translated as "the great tale of the Bhārata dynasty". According to the Mahabharata itself, the tale is extended from a shorter version of 24,000 verses called simply Bhārata."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahabharata
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4PostSubject: Re: Gandharis's curse on Krishna   Wed Nov 11, 2015 5:44 am

I just got some interesting information about the Mayans and how their accounts of the Aliens or Other Worldly made mankind.  They did it in steps to get a viable creation that would survive whatever they created on the planet and the planet itself.  It is a very interesting account and yu can read it here:
http://www.ancient-code.com/popol-vuh-the-sacred-book-of-the-ancient-maya-other-beings-created-mankind/

The last paragraph states this:
"Here is the interesting part of the Popol Vuh:

They had neither father nor mother, neither were they made by the ordinary agents in the work of creation, but their coming into existence was a miracle extraordinary, wrought by the special intervention of the Creator. “Verily, at last, did the gods look on beings who were worthy of their origin.”

As you can see in the above parts of the Popol Vuh, we have detailed descriptions of how beings not from Earth, CREATED man:  the Creator, the Former, the Dominator, the Feathered-Serpent, they-who-engender, they-who-give-being communed tighter on several occasions, and after several tries, “THEY” created MANKIND."
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5PostSubject: Re: Gandharis's curse on Krishna   Wed Nov 11, 2015 9:31 am

LadyG, #4: I don't see how this ties in with the Mahabharata, and suggest that it be discussed in a thread dealing with creation myths...

I actually don't know much about the Mahabharata, because the only part of it I've read carefully is the Bhagavad Gita, which seems to be a treatise on spiritual matters composed separately from the rest of the epic and inserted. I'd like to see what rcscwc has to say about this: especially when he believes it was written and by whom.
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6PostSubject: Re: Gandharis's curse on Krishna   Wed Nov 11, 2015 4:32 pm

RC's post concerned the creation and magic of his tribe.  That is why I posted about the Mayan's "tribe" about creation and other dimensions and other worldly here.
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7PostSubject: Re: Gandharis's curse on Krishna   Wed Nov 11, 2015 11:22 pm

Realityrebel wrote:
I've always wondered if the writing of the Mahabharata that has come down to us was influenced by the Greek epics attributed to Homer, which were probably composed between 1500 and 1000 BCE.

"Traditionally, the authorship of the Mahabharata is attributed to Vyasa. There have been many attempts to unravel its historical growth and compositional layers. The oldest preserved parts of the text are thought to be not much older than around 400 BCE, though the origins of the epic probably fall between the 8th and 9th centuries BCE. The text probably reached its final form by the early Gupta period (c. 4th century CE).[5] The title may be translated as "the great tale of the Bhārata dynasty". According to the Mahabharata itself, the tale is extended from a shorter version of 24,000 verses called simply Bhārata."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahabharata

No influence of Greek epics is possible.

Mahabharat seems to be recent. There is a reason. In Indian climatic conditions, any writing medium cannot survive for long. Source Bhagavata Purana in 24000 verses. It has certain astronomical information which amenable to analysis by soft ware. Such an analysis points that such events were about 5100-7000 years ago. Did some one observe and describe them or a super brian back calculated to 5100 years ago and picked an event? That description must be brief. And nobody claims that with passages of time additions and interpolations did not occur. Different recessions differ only marginally, but the tale is not affected.
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8PostSubject: Re: Gandharis's curse on Krishna   Wed Nov 11, 2015 11:23 pm

Lady Guinevere wrote:
RC's post concerned the creation and magic of his tribe.  That is why I posted about the Mayan's "tribe" about creation and other dimensions and other worldly here.

There is no word about creation or magic./
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9PostSubject: Re: Gandharis's curse on Krishna   Thu Nov 12, 2015 2:18 am

rcscwc wrote:
Lady Guinevere wrote:
RC's post concerned the creation and magic of his tribe.  That is why I posted about the Mayan's "tribe" about creation and other dimensions and other worldly here.

There is no word about creation or magic./

That's true, and I don't remember if either subject is mentioned to any significant extent in the Mahabharata at all, though of course there is lots of material on both creation and magic if one considers Hindu religious literature as a whole.
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10PostSubject: Re: Gandharis's curse on Krishna   Thu Nov 12, 2015 5:19 am

"On Him she pronounced he curse : O Krishna, O lord of the universe, you and only you could have averted the battll.. Yo could imposed your will. But O Krishna, you chose not do it. Like my clan has perished while live, so will your clan perish while you are in this world. You too will suffer like I do.

With a smile Krishna replied: O mother, your curse shall come happen. Only After suffering will I go back to my world."




I dunno, we seems to have two different views on this one.  I think it is about other worlds amfd going between the two.  I think that a bit of magic and creation because Krisna is their God of the Universe and it seems to me in this writng that he was punished for not stoping something, by someone else...a female....

So to keep the peace around here I will just not respond to this thread anymore....
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11PostSubject: Re: Gandharis's curse on Krishna   Thu Nov 12, 2015 5:26 am

Actual curse is quite terrible and comprehensive.

"Gandhari said, The Pandavas and the Dhartarashtras, O Krishna, have both been burnt. Whilst they were thus being exterminated, O Janardana, why wert thou indifferent to them? Thou wert competent to prevent the slaughter, for thou hast a large number of followers and a vast force. Thou hadst eloquence, and thou hadst the power (for bringing about peace). Since deliberately, O slayer of Madhu, thou wert indifferent to this universal carnage, therefore, O mighty-armed one, thou shouldst reap the fruit of this act. By the little merit I have acquired through waiting dutifully on my husband, by that merit so difficult to attain, I shall curse thee, O wielder of the discus and the mace! Since thou wert indifferent to the Kurus and the Pandavas whilst they slew each other, therefore, O Govinda, thou shalt be the slayer of thy own kinsmen! In the thirty-sixth year from this, O slayer of Madhu, thou shalt, after causing the slaughter of thy kinsmen and friends and sons, perish by disgusting means in the wilderness. The ladies of thy race, deprived of sons, kinsmen, and friends, shall weep and cry even as these ladies of the Bharata race!"
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12PostSubject: Re: Gandharis's curse on Krishna   Thu Nov 12, 2015 5:38 am

Lady Guinevere wrote:
"On Him she pronounced he curse : O Krishna, O lord of the universe, you and only you could have averted the battll.. Yo could imposed your will. But O Krishna, you chose not do it. Like my clan has perished while live, so will your clan perish while you are in this world. You too will suffer like I do.

With a smile Krishna replied: O mother, your curse shall come happen. Only After suffering will I go back to my world."




I dunno, we seems to have two different views on this one.  I think it is about other worlds amfd going between the two.  I think that a bit of magic and creation because Krisna is their God of the Universe and it seems to me in this writng that he was punished for not stoping something, by someone else...a female....

So to keep the peace around here I will just not respond to this thread anymore....


Other realms do not necessarily mean magic or creation. Yes, Krishna we consider God who is beginning, middle and end of all. Here he is in the middle, upholding and maintaining the creation.

We have never been intolerant of differing views, reason why there are six major schools of Hindu philosophy, none seeing eye to eye on almost anything. So please post so I can provide clarifications.

But my nature is to use terse language, due to my professional back ground.
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13PostSubject: Re: Gandharis's curse on Krishna   Thu Nov 12, 2015 6:00 am

Well that is more clear and thanks for the rest of the story.  I think, after reading that, it was a fitting punishment...one that fit the crime so to speak.

Your tolerance or non tolerance is the same as in Christianity.....they think that theirs is the ONLY one and all others are false and devilish.  Funny that is....many years ago I came up against...or should I say they came up against me because I did not beleive exactly how they believed and I "dared" to ask questions.....and on top of that I was female and that is a big no-no in their belief system.  They think that it is their right to bring "lost sheep" back to the fold without ever saking them why the left it in the first place.

People want to world to be all together, but they surely do not share it when it comes to politics and religion.  We will NEVER be One World the way things are panning out. I prefer not every one be ONE but different.  

The link to that article was not to say that anyone was Mayan or not.  If you read it it is more about how the creaors decided and brought to council and tried many times to make humas...not religions or beliefs and it was not about if you were Mayan or not....only that you were human.

I do remember your professional background.
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14PostSubject: Re: Gandharis's curse on Krishna   Thu Nov 12, 2015 8:19 am

Para #1
You will be surprised by what we think.

Sure K could used force, but he did not. But use of force in this case may not have helped. But he did try peaceful ways. Why wage a battle to avert another?

Both the antagonists were right and wrong to an extent, we think. So Pandavas do not get a completely clean chit.

But Krishna did not use force is because we believe in the Law of Karma, you get the fruits of deeds, maybe sweet or maybe bitter. It was a pyrrhic victory as Pandavas lost their next two generations, except for one unborn. You think they were happy slaying their elders and teachers and other revered ones? No.

On another level K was to blame because he engineered it, sort of. Perhaps He wanted this battle to cleanse the world of un-righteousness. That is His judgement and He is beyond blames. After all he taught in BG:

4.07 Arjuna, whenever there is decline of righteousness, and unrighteousness is in the ascendent, then I embody Myself forth.
4.08 For the protection of the virtuous, for the destruction of evil-doers, and for re-establishing Dharma (righteousness) on a firm footing, I manifest myself from age to age.

He manifested Himself for a purpose and after that He returned to His abode. It happened in Dwapar age and a another age, much depraved Kali yuga was to begin. He wanted the new age age to start with a clean slate, which the humans are busy dirtying.

PS: He drove Arjuna's chariot in the battle. He himself had vowed not to take up arms. Why, after all he was unconquerable in battle. That is another tale.

His next manifestation will be as Lord Kalki.

Vyasa was not a commissioned chronicler, but described the events as is, occasionally giving a peace of his mind to every one.

Sanskrit language has no word meaning MAGIC.

Mahabharata is a tale of deeds. Selfishness and unselfishness. of loyalty and treachery, of friendships and enmity, cowardice and valour, kindness and cruelity. Mind you, characters are humans not angels.
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15PostSubject: Re: Gandharis's curse on Krishna   Thu Nov 12, 2015 9:29 am

rc, #14, re: "Sanskrit language has no word meaning MAGIC."

However, it does have terminology referring to the casting of spells, which is what the word "magic" means to a modern Western Occultist like me. And if you want, I can post links to literally hundreds of videos showing people in India doing just this. And here is what Wikipedia has to say about this:

Magic in Hinduism

The Atharva Veda is a veda that deals with mantras that can be used for both good and bad. The word mantrik in India literally means "magician" since the mantrik usually knows mantras, spells, and curses which can be used for or against all forms of magic. Tantra is likewise employed for ritual magic by the tantrik. Many ascetics after long periods of penance and meditation are alleged to attain a state where they may utilize supernatural powers. However, many say that they choose not to use them and instead focus on transcending beyond physical power into the realm of spirituality. Many siddhars are said to have performed miracles that would ordinarily be impossible to perform.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_(paranormal)
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16PostSubject: Re: Gandharis's curse on Krishna   Thu Nov 12, 2015 6:45 pm

Again, Sanskrit language has no word which means magic. Mantras do not work in mysterious way. They are supposed to produce a calmness, peace, just some wishes or objectives etc. Is my signature a magic? It is part of one of the peace mantras.

Btw, what is magical about a welcome performance or song etc? That makes the credibility of the article to nearly a zero.

Bible begins with a magical creation by god like producing a rabbit out of hat. Yet those very xians, western "scholars" think that every other faith is mumbo-jumbo, magic, sorcery.


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17PostSubject: Re: Gandharis's curse on Krishna   Thu Nov 12, 2015 7:02 pm

rcscwc wrote:
Again, Sanskrit language has no word which means magic. Mantras do not work in mysterious way. They are supposed to produce a calmness, peace, just some wishes or objectives etc. Is my signature a magic? It is part of one of the peace mantras.

Here's a video of the type I mentioned above:

Break Black Magic Spell,Curses and Hexes with Powerful Hanumath Kavacham


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18PostSubject: Re: Gandharis's curse on Krishna   Thu Nov 12, 2015 7:24 pm

Realityrebel wrote:
rcscwc wrote:
Again, Sanskrit language has no word which means magic. Mantras do not work in mysterious way. They are supposed to produce a calmness, peace, just some wishes or objectives etc. Is my signature a magic? It is part of one of the peace mantras.

Here's a video of the type I mentioned above:

Break Black Magic Spell,Curses and Hexes with Powerful Hanumath Kavacham



It is a prayer. If it is a magic then magic is there at every walk of like. Your Cong starts business with a magical spell. It is Hanuman's Armour. Invoking biblegod and thumping bible/koran etc too is supposed to clad you in satan and sin proof armor and route you to paradise.

In Rig Veda too there are prayers to protect even the unborn ones.

Zero credibility of that article.


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19PostSubject: Re: Gandharis's curse on Krishna   Thu Nov 12, 2015 7:35 pm

I see this prayer as magic and definitely agree that magic is there at every walk of life. And I'm pretty sure that the man chanting in the video would agree with me.
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20PostSubject: Re: Gandharis's curse on Krishna   Fri Nov 13, 2015 2:59 pm

And you are doing the exact same thing.  In some Christians we do not involked anybody because Everything that we need is already WITHIN us as is with Everyone....that has no bounderies unless the person puts them there.
I do not believe in anyone else dealing with my own life and I am in control of my own life...no deities or Gods or pthers doing so.  Be careful of what you think becasue that will be the boundaries of which you establish for your own being.
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21PostSubject: Re: Gandharis's curse on Krishna   Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:09 pm

Realityrebel wrote:
I see this prayer as magic and definitely agree that magic is there at every walk of life. And I'm pretty sure that the man chanting in the video would agree with me.

He is not chanting but singing metrically. You don't know which language it is in, far to understand.

We have different sorts of devotionals. Stotras/stutis, aartis of daily use, prayers.

Major difference in magic prayers is that magic is expected to yield immediate and tangible effects. Prayers are not even for tangible effects. You pray for peace, but not the hope of getting a big lump of peace dropped in your yard.

Anyway, for Abrahmics, every other faith is mumbo jumbo, superstition and magic etc.
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22PostSubject: Re: Gandharis's curse on Krishna   Sat Nov 14, 2015 3:09 am

rcscwc wrote:
Realityrebel wrote:
I see this prayer as magic and definitely agree that magic is there at every walk of life. And I'm pretty sure that the man chanting in the video would agree with me.

He is not chanting but singing metrically. You don't know which language it is in, far to understand.

We have different sorts of devotionals. Stotras/stutis, aartis of daily use, prayers.

Major difference in magic prayers is that magic is expected to yield immediate and tangible effects. Prayers are not even for tangible effects. You pray for peace, but not the hope of getting a big lump of peace dropped in your yard.

Anyway, for Abrahmics, every other faith is mumbo jumbo, superstition and magic etc.

As an occultist, I've spent my whole life learning various details of what you are referring to, and how to put them together into a form I can use for both personal development and to do good things for other people. And this is the reason why all three of the Abrahamic religions have often made the study of Occultism a crime punishable by death. This has never been the case in India, where as far as I know, there has never been a formal division between "orthodox religion" and "occultism".

And in any case, I'd like to discuss these matters with you at length, and to learn the various things about your slant on Hinduism that you've been persecuted for trying to describe on other Web venues. For example, I'd love to see you start a thread on the history of Hinduism, so I can ask you all kinds of questions...
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23PostSubject: music and comedy   Mon Nov 23, 2015 2:06 am

music and comedy
are the lifting of
any curse and
the keys to
paradise
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24PostSubject: Re: Gandharis's curse on Krishna   Mon Nov 23, 2015 7:38 am

Words are magic
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25PostSubject: Re: Gandharis's curse on Krishna   Mon Nov 23, 2015 5:15 pm

[quote="Oink" (guest)]music and comedy
are the lifting of
any curse and
the keys to
paradise[/quote]

Hmmm, this sounds like the sort of message that Siggy the Piggy posts in many different rooms, but IMO, it would be even cooler if somebody else is doing the same thing. So I'd like to see more from you, and if you're not Siggy, I think it would be way cool if you'd join under any user name you like and keep on posting similar stuff.

As for your message, I can think of lots of examples of music and comedy being used to lead people in the opposite direction ... the "Pied Piper" is one of the best.




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